This is part 2 of 2 for an interview with Michael Colby, transcribed by Marci Cohen and edited by Therese Dickman. Photo courtesy of Marci Cohen.
Cohen: I had not realized that Michael Rogan and you had been friends for a long time. It wasn’t just the fact that you served back-to-back terms as presidents that forged the friendship. Do you want to talk about the roots of that friendship through the organization?
Colby: I first met Michael Rogan at the Cleveland meeting [in 1989]. I saw him as a rival. I was still working for the San Francisco Public Library then, and I saw him talking to John Roberts, who was the head of the music library at the University of California Berkeley, which was where I really wanted to work. It was like, “Oh, he’s schmoozing with John. He wants to get a job there. I want to get a job there. [So] he’s one of my rivals.” At the time, I felt like I was in competition with everybody in the organization, and everybody was my rival, whether it was for a position on a committee, a job, or whatever. It was horrible. I’m glad I wasn’t that person for long.
Then Michael was on the Education Committee, and I went to the presentation the Education Committee gave. Everybody’s in the room, and they’re all noisy. Michael walks up to the podium and grabs the microphone. He says, “Sit down and shut up!” And I thought, “He’s a formidable rival.” But I got to know him over the years, and a couple years later, at the Seattle meeting, he approached me about being roommates. So we got to know each other that way. Then I realized that he’s not my rival. He’s happy in the Boston area. He wants to stay there. He’s a really great guy! Then we got to see each other outside of the MLA meetings, too. It became not just a professional friendship, but a personal friendship. It was really enriching and rewarding because music librarians are wonderful people that I enjoy seeing outside of the MLA meetings. And Michael is not the only person who has become a friend outside of MLA.
Cohen: Now was it by design or by accident that you ended up serving as back-to-back presidents?
Colby: It may have been his design, because he encouraged me to run for president. I think that he had ambitions of being president. I’m putting words in his head. But I think that he thought it would be good to follow somebody who would be supportive of him, who was of a like mind, who would set him up well to do good things, which he did. Michael has good ideas. He has more ideas than I do. His idea to do the regional IAML meeting in Orlando is an example.
Cohen: Which leads me to another question. Do you want to talk about your outreach with other organizations?
Colby: I was with the Subject Access Subcommittee of what was then the BCC. In that role I was a liaison to the Subject Analysis Committee of the American Library Association. That forced me to start going to the American Library Association meetings. You get the vision of that other organization there. It made me see what’s going on in ALA and other ways that MLA and ALA can work more closely together. In some ways, it can be successful and not so successful. There’s that whole Basic Music Library publication project, working with publishing with ALA, which took years and years longer than it should have. At the time that I was president, RDA (Resource Description and Access) was first being published. It seemed like a really good opportunity to work with ALA to use MLA’s expertise to do training, when webinars were first coming out. I don’t think I was the person to put it forward, but I was very receptive when people were suggesting, “Couldn’t we work with ALA to have experts in the Cataloging and Metadata Committee do webinars that ALA had the infrastructure to do, and then we could reap some of the revenue?” I was a cheerleader for that idea on the board. I was like, “Yeah! Let’s do this!” I was very supportive of that [collaborative effort].
Cohen: I saw this as not a cataloger. Within MLA, we recognize the needs for catalogs to deal with non-text materials in ways that the rest of librarianship may not have on their radar. Then we can advocate not only for our own organization but also for all those people out there who deal with music, but not as their primary focus.
Colby: Right. I have to give Michael Rogan credit for this because there were discussions on the board. Something MLA has struggled with is that the organization is smaller than it was twenty years ago. There are fewer librarians dealing with music in institutions. Some places that [once] had four librarians dealing with music might now only have two or one. And it’s the [challenge] of “How do we keep MLA vital and strong?” We’re not going to be a larger organization. Maybe we’re going to be an organization of experts and people will come to us. And maybe part of that is–I hate to use this word sometimes, but–we “monetize” this by offering our expertise in these webinars, and we [thus] generate some revenue that keeps us fiscally afloat. They benefit and pay a nominal fee to us, and everybody benefits from that.
Cohen: That’s something to be proud of. What were some of the challenges you faced as president, and what were some of the highlights of being president?
Colby: [One] of the challenges [was] keeping the organization fiscally sound. There was the whole honoraria kerfuffle when the president before me was looking at the finances of the organization, and they weren’t looking rosy. How do you keep more money coming in than going out? You looked at all the honoraria that we were paying out for everything–every assistant editor and that kind of thing. [You also looked] at what other organizations were doing, and they weren’t giving that kind of honoraria to all of those roles in those amounts. [And then you identified that] maybe that’s where we need to cut back. That angered a lot of people, which makes sense. If you’re getting paid something for your work and somebody says you’re doing a great job, but we’re not going to pay you for it anymore, it’s not going to make you happy. Well, it made a lot of people unhappy. And I came into the presidency right after that.
I had to deal with a lot of unhappy people. I [held] a town hall [meeting] where I had all of these slides, with pie and bar charts, and said, “These are the hard numbers. It’s not a happy thing. But how are we going to deal with this? This is the way we chose, and we don’t see another way. I’m sorry you aren’t happy. We don’t want to make you unhappy, but this is the way it is. Please try to be reasonable and live with it.” That was hard. It was [also tough] to stand up there alone on the stage with all of [those] charts and have people come up and say, “You know, I’m really unhappy that I’m not getting an honorarium anymore.” I felt their pain. That was really challenging. Some of the people who were unhappy said things like, “I used to be a donor to MLA, and I’m just not happy with MLA anymore, so I’m not going to be giving money anymore.” [Yet] now I look at the list of donors. And guess what? I see their name on there again. It [seems] like they’ve come around. I like to think that maybe I have helped have something to do with that.
Cohen: So what are some changes you’ve seen in the organization over the years? Obviously, the number of members has shrunk. But are there aspects of the culture of the organization or the focus that you’ve seen shift over your time [in MLA]?
Colby: The organization is really addressing diversity now, and they didn’t [before]. I have to [admit] that I needed to be made aware of that, because I felt like, “We’re music librarians. We get it.” You look around the room. Yeah, you don’t see a lot of librarians of color. But it’s not because we’re bad people. And I have to give credit to Judy Tsou for saying this. She didn’t use these terms, but it’s clichĂ©: If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.” If MLA looks like a bunch of white people, then they need to do something about changing that, and what are you doing to change that? Nothing. Well, then you need to do something.
I realized that [lack of diversity in MLA] when I was president. When we started to see a bit of a surplus because of some of those draconian [budget] measures that had been taken, [I] said, “What should we do with this?” Well, let’s start to fund a diversity scholarship, because that’s something we can do to bring people into the profession who look different from most of the people sitting around the boardroom. I also said at the same time, “Let’s start a diversity committee, which is an idea I was against in the past because it seemed like such a ’90s idea. It seemed like lip service [back then]. “Okay, we’ve got a committee, and it’s got the name ‘diversity’ on it, so we’ve done something about it.” But if you don’t have a place where you can have some of these conversations, you’re shutting off that voice. With Judy’s help, I really came around [about] that. And now when you look at [an MLA] meeting, it looks different. Maybe I helped make some of that change come about. [Colby later clarified “I didn’t start the first diversity scholarship in MLA, and I don’t want to seem like I’m giving that impression. MLA was fortunate to have a wonderful diversity scholarship program for several years that was funded through ARL. [That] program was finite, [however], and ending during my presidency. MLA didn’t seem to have any plan for stepping up and moving forward at that point. That is when I felt that I took some leadership on the issue.”]
Cohen: I actually took a picture because I have a pin hanging on my wall, the “I gave to Michael Colby’s Half-as-Good-as-Judy-Tsou’s-Diversity-Scholarship-Fundraising-Challenge Challenge.” Do you want to talk about that specifically?
Colby: Judy put up a lot of money towards that diversity scholarship, and yeah, I wish I were in a position to put up as much money as Judy did, but I didn’t feel [that] I was. But I did follow in her footsteps and put up a $5,000 challenge scholarship to fully fund the scholarship so we could actually have somebody receive it. So, yeah, I did that for one meeting [Orlando in 2017]. My own hard-earned money. I was fortunate enough to be able to do that.
Cohen: Do you have a philosophy of librarianship?
Colby: I don’t know if this is a philosophy of librarianship. I do remember something that Ann Basart, a UC music librarian when I was a student there, said in describing herself. She called herself a “sciolist,” which is a person who has broad but shallow knowledge. I thought that was interesting. Because to be a good librarian, you have to know a lot [of information], but not necessarily deep knowledge.
Cohen: How do you envision the future of music librarianship?
Colby: Well, I sure do hope there is one, because you see in libraries so much this idea that a librarian is a person who–no matter what the subject is as long as they know the tools–can find the information. I think it’s the opposite, that the more information there is out there, the more important it is to know the nitty-gritty details, to be able to get it in the morass of all that is out there. So that’s challenging. But I also think that there are many more opportunities for distance collaboration. Like the institution that I worked at for twenty-six years, and where I did the music instruction, reference, and collection development, still has not come up with a long-term solution for how to serve with me being gone. When I met with the AUL [Associate University Librarian] when I left, they said, “What should we do in the short term, because we really don’t have anybody on staff here who can fill in during the interim?” And I said, “How about another music librarian in the UC system who could do the things by email or by telephone?” They did that, and they engaged John Shepard at UC, Berkeley for a year. From what I heard, the faculty at UC Davis were really pleased with that. And so for a short term, that really worked out. I wonder if that might work–that you have a really good music specialist who can handle two or three smaller or medium-size campuses? You have a music specialist, and you don’t have one in every location. But you’ve got somebody who really knows their stuff who can handle a larger geographic area, because you don’t need to physically be there when you have Skype, [Zoom], or email. But I think to say that you don’t need the training and the expertise is the wrong approach.
Cohen: Do you want to talk about your retirement–because you retired relatively young,–and your transition to being a librarian emeritus?
Colby: Yeah, I’ve thought about that a lot because these days I have time to think. I don’t want to say that I’m lucky to be able to retire at age sixty because “lucky” makes it sound like things fell into my lap. I say I’m fortunate because I worked for a system that had a pension. Pensions are wonderful things, and they’re going away because people want to take them from us. I worked for what I had, but to be able to retire when I still have my health and all, that is wonderful.
Cohen: Do you want to talk about what you’re doing now as a librarian emeritus?
Colby: I didn’t burn any bridges when I left. So when I was gone for a year, they asked me if I would be willing to come back to do some things. So I negotiated. I said, “Well, it depends. I’ll come back how much, and what do you want me to do?” It was just in the cataloging realm even though that wasn’t all of what I did. So they said, “Do one day a week.” And now it’s pretty much just music, and mostly a sheet music collection of women composers, which is really fascinating. I worked with the faculty member who’s now retired who collected and donated that material. We actually did a joint presentation on it at IAML when it was in New York. That’s been really interesting. And my boss–because I still have a boss–asked me to write an article about SACO [Subject Authority Cooperative program]. She was the outgoing president of the Program for Cooperative Cataloging (PCC) at ALA, shepherding a commemorative issue for the 50th anniversary of the PCC in the Cataloging and Classification Quarterly. She asked me if I would write an article on the subject cooperative component of that. So I wrote that. [“SACO: Past, Present, and Future.”] So that’s interesting to be able to still have one foot in the profession but still have a lot of free time to practice clarinet, play in my band, read novels, and fill in my gaps in early music history by reading–all the stuff that I missed even in graduate school.
Cohen: I don’t know if MLA is unusual in having retirees remain an active part of the organization or at least showing up for meetings on a regular basis. Since you still presumably have many healthy years ahead of you, what do you think that your future with MLA is going to look like? You’ve had a lot of accomplishments. Now do you just show up for the party?
Colby: That sounds good to me! (Laughs) I’ve been to a few sessions at this meeting, but I feel that less and less pertains to me. I’m still interested, but you go to a session, and there’s a feeling that, “Oh, I need to know about that. I need to be concerned about that.” But you know what? Actually, I don’t. And I have to admit, it’s a good feeling. Because I trust all these people who are here who still need to deal with those issues [will] do a good job on it.
Cohen: Is there more you’d like to talk about? We’ve talked about a lot.
Colby: Yeah, we [did] talk about a lot. The things that I wanted to emphasize that I did, like inclusion, which is what I talked about people feeling wanted and needed. Also, if active in MLA, if you don’t get that position or elected to something that you wanted, not to take it as a rejection. Because there is room for everybody in MLA. Even if it wasn’t your first choice, there’s a second or a third somewhere along the line. I am pleased to see so much more diversity, and I feel bad that I wasn’t a stronger advocate for diversity earlier on–that it took Judy Tsou to wake me up. I am also pleased that the organization is still here and vital. When you’re reading about ALA saying, “We’re going through some difficult fiscal times right now,” When we used to look back and say, “ALA’s doing really great, and we’re struggling,” it’s nice to see that the situation has shifted a bit. Not schadenfreude or anything. Just that we’re doing okay.
Cohen: Relief.
Colby: Yeah.
Cohen: A sense of relief.
Colby: Maybe I played a little part in us [MLA] doing okay. We deserve to be okay.